Windows 8 Tablets: Born to fail

Discussion in 'Android Tablet News Depot' started by Spider, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. Spider

    Spider Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15,413
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Trophy Points:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Tablet / Device:
    NOOK Tablet Stock NOOKcolor Rooted/Flashed Nexus 7 (2013) 32GB Stock
    Summary: I'm no Windows 8 fan, but I thought Windows 8 tablets had a shot of making it. But, $600 for an ARM tablet? $800 for an Atom-powered tablet!? If the prices we're seeing are accurate, these are dead tablets walking.

    [​IMG] By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols for Between the Lines | September 17, 2012 -- 21:58 GMT

    It's no secret that I don't like Windows 8 on new or old desktops. I really thought it might have a shot on tablets though. But at these prices!? Windows RT and 8 on tablets is as dead as a mackerel.

    I mean seriously. Asus, a mid-range computer vendor, wants $599 for a Nvidia Tegra ARM-powerd Windows RT tablet? The Windows 8 tablet with an Atom processor for $799? Oh, and if you want a keyboard for either one, it will cost you an extra $199!?

    Come on! My Nexus 7, the best tablet I've found to date, cost me $250. A totally maxed out iPad 3 runs runs $829. I'll take either of those in a New York minute over a Windows 8 tablet at those prices.

    A friend of mine said the Windows 8 tablet with a keyboard would be worth the price since he could then use it as a full computer. My response to him was: "Isn't that called a laptop?" Actually with an Atom processor at its heart, the question should be: "Isn't that called a netbook?" And can't I get one of those for hundreds less? Why yes, yes I think I can.

    Besides, with programs such as GotoMyPC you don't need a Windows device to run your Windows applications. They'll run just fine on a less expensive Android tablet or an iPad. And, of course, you can always use a cloud-based office suite like Google Docs on pretty much any device.

    Leaving aside my dislike for Windows 8, even if this was the best operating system ever, I can't see anyone buying these devices at these prices. They're just too expensive for both consumers and businesses. In a world where Apple has an iron-lock on high-end tablets and Android is securing its place on the mid- and low-ends with devices such as the Nexus 7 and the Amazon Kindle Fire HD, I don't see anyone wanting to buy a Windows 8 or RT tablet at these price points.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Tom T

    Tom T Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,632
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Location:
    Washington State
    Tablet / Device:
    Hauwei S7
    I agree about the RT but I think the Atom based devices will go over rather well. Almost a dual boot system, it can be both a tablet and a notebook. with the announced Pro version from Microsoft including a digitizer it seems like a device that will be able to do it all, running both the tablet and full version of Windows 8
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. learner

    learner Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    180
    Tablet / Device:
    acer a 501, N8020 Galaxy Note 10.1, Galaxy Tab 4.
    Anyone who implies that a Nexus7 is the best tablet available just doesnt get it !!!! This bloke obviously doesnt use a tablet for anything other than as a toy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Dawnstar

    Dawnstar Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Tablet / Device:
    Samsung GalaxyTab2
    Window 8 is ugly IMO on a tablet

    When i first got my Chinese Tablet the windows 8 was already on it so i change it to Jellybean so if windows 8 is new why is it on so many Chinese tablets today? because the Chinese have copied their own version of windows 8.
     
  5. vampirefo.

    vampirefo. Senior Member Developer

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,828
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    655
    Location:
    Huntington WV
    Tablet / Device:
    Leagoo Lead 1 ZTE OPEN C, Coby 7065, Coby 8042, Coby 9740
    Well, some people are willing to pay $800 or so for an iphone, So there are people willing to pay $600 or so for a windows based tablet. I wouldn't give $50 for both of them, unless I knew I could sell them for a profit. I have no use or need for windows, but I do hope MS makes them as high as possible, I kind of enjoy watching people pay way to much for stuff.
     
  6. Tom T

    Tom T Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,632
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Location:
    Washington State
    Tablet / Device:
    Hauwei S7
    I do think there needs to be a distinction made between the RT, which is just another mobile os, and a full blown windows tablet, which traditionally have been very expensive and in one form or another available for years.
     
  7. J515OP

    J515OP Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    898
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Tablet / Device:
    Nook Color, Nook Tablet 16GB, Vizio VTab, Nexus 7
    I think the multiple self confessions about not liking Widows is enough to disqualify this opinion. Clearly there is admitted bias. Yes, there are laptops and yes there are netbooks and yes there are tablets. So the real issue isn't what category these new "tablets" really fall under because they do in fact blur the lines which makes them a good fit even at those prices.

    Ever try being productive at office work (Word or Excel) on your Nexus 7? Yes there are office apps but they all have shortcomings plus that is only 7 inches, not ideal for productivity. How about that totally maxed out iPad 3 at $829? So now you have to have a data connection and log in remotely to get any office productivity done? So my math says you have now spent $250 for the Nexus 7 and $829 for the iPad 3 plus a monthly data fee to work through an app like gotomypc ($10/month) plus say a $15 office suite and oh, say $100 for a bluetooth key board that you share between the two tablets.

    Total = 250+829+30+10+15+100 = $1,234!! Oh and by the way that $30 for data and $10 for gotomypc is monthly so after a year your total cost is $1,674.

    Now let's not forget that you may still need a netbook, laptop or pc when you "really" need to get some work done. We can stick to the low end here since this is a device you need only to supplement what you can't do very efficiently on the tablets and say any one of those will cost you $400. Add back to our previous totals and you are in the $1,500 to $2000 range.

    Now the counter argument. As already stated phones cost $600 to $800 unsubsidized and people are willing to pay that. Even when they aren't and go for subsidies the contracts make up for that so essentially you end up paying for the phone no matter what. So we know that people will pay those amounts just for phones which are considered essential. The reason tablets don't fetch those prices is because they are considered extras in addition to a computer and a phone. so yes people don't want to spend more than $250 on a tablet to check Facebook and watch youtube after they spent $400 on a computer of some sort and several hundred more for a phone.

    Here is where Microsoft's Windows 8 tablets and Windows RT tablets fit in. This can replace a netbook, laptop or pc for many people who need that device just so they can use office productivity applications (usually Word and Excel). If office productivity is essential but you are a light user (you need Office but not for extremely rigorous tasks) you can get a Windows RT tablet. It comes with a nearly full office suite for free, works as a tablet without a keyboard and as a netbook/laptop with a keyboard. No need for gotomypc subscription, office app, or data so you can log into gotomypc when you want to be productive and for the low cost of only $600 + $100 keyboard (many versions may come with this though) = $700 for functional productivity and entertainment device without having to jump through all the hoops to get what you need done.

    So you say you are a power user and RT is going to be too limited and you need to run macros in excel? Buy a full Windows 8 tablet. Now there is nothing you can't do on your tablet that you would normally need a laptop or desktop for. Plus you remove the keyboard and you have an on the go tablet when you want it. Maybe not the most portable or lightest tablet but you are a power user and are probably use to lugging a laptop around anyway. Now you don't have to lug that $1,000 to $2,000 power laptop around though. So you have replaced the expensive laptop and additional tablet ($250-$829) with one $800 to $1,200 device.

    Yes you can make a case for adjusting your workflow and finding solutions to make Android and iOS tablets work. If you need to use Office though you still need a computer of some sort in addition to your tablet. In a couple of years the bugs may get worked out and it can be as good as a first party pc experience but from what I have seen we are far from that and have to jump through hoops to make it work.

    On the other hand you can buy a Windows RT device if you are say a student or light Office user and replace both a tablet and a netbook or light duty laptop with one device that just works with Office the way you need it to out of the box. If you are a power user you can also get an out of the box solution and replace a tablet and robust laptop or a PC with one device. Both of these case take care of a majority of the productivity complaints people have with the current tablets and also can replace a traditional PC device making for a good value when you can get two devices for one good price.

    JP
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
    • Like Like x 4
  8. Tom T

    Tom T Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,632
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Location:
    Washington State
    Tablet / Device:
    Hauwei S7
    Interesting but I will have to see if the RT really is more than a mobile os. I remember back in the day of windows ce devices and they too offered supposed office apps but they were just a limited function office compatible app much like documents to go on the palm devices. What Im curious about here is just how functional the RT office app will be in comparison to the full blown office you can run on the Pro Atom based tablets.
    Important to note I am not a windows hater, I am VERY excited about the Pro version of the surface type devices, and I am waiting to replace my aging notebook until I can see some initial reviews, maybe get a little hands on time with them.
     
  9. J515OP

    J515OP Super Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    5,172
    Likes Received:
    898
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Tablet / Device:
    Nook Color, Nook Tablet 16GB, Vizio VTab, Nexus 7
    Yes exactly what I think many many people are waiting to see. Supposedly RT will be able to use nearly full Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote but no Outlook). This will be nice for the users who need Office without complete complete features.

    Source: Office for Windows RT detailed by Microsoft, pre-loaded on RT devices | News | TechRadar

    This should cover many many people who want to easily do Office basics on their tablet but mostly have a tablet. Going forward RT should get every new app that Windows 8 gets since porting them over to RT is supposed to be trivial. RT just won't have anything that runs on Windows versions prior to Windows 8. The full Windows 8 tablets will be for people who need more in either Office itself or legacy support for software run on Windows versions prior to Windows 8.

    There will still be a need for 7" consumption/gateway devices (I love mine but I'm not typing a report on them) and for higher end consumption and media creation devices (larger size tablets good for watching and editing movies for example). At the end of the day I see three tiers for tablets:

    1. Toys, 5" (phablets) to 7" size devices that are primarily aimed at portability, getting you to buy from a certain ecosystem (book, movies, music, apps and shopping), entertainment and gaming.

    2. Entertainment and creative productivity, 8" to 10" tablets for watching movies and music, surfing the web, social media interaction and communication, light document creation (possibly more if the current abilities improve enough), movie and music creation, reading and teaching. They will fill all the roles that top tier power tablets currently fill (Galaxy Notes, Transformers and iPads).

    (2.5 Windows RT tablets more than likely will be a category 2 device though).

    3. Power tablets/hybrids, which can be used the same as the tablets in #2 but offer additional functions in traditional productivity (mouse, keyboard, document intensive environments). These can replace netbooks, laptops and some desktop PCs. These might be ultra-thin ultra books with screens that rotate to the back of their keyboards, detachable keyboards or sliding keyboards, or our current concept of a tablet as the primary device with a keyboard that can be added on. Because these straddle the laptop/tablet world there can be two approaches in philosophy of a device where the keyboard is either hidden away or removed but primarily part of the device (subtractive) or where the tablet without a keyboard is considered the primary device but the keyboard can be added on (additive).

    With these 3 options you can have tons of combinations which pretty much everybody should be able to find a balance with. Everything from inexpensive and portable to powerful and long lasting to replacing a laptop/desktop. Just because you have one of the above doesn't mean you can't have another. For example you may still want #1 in addition to either #2 or #3 just for easier portability. Nothing we have now is going away we will just have many options that will allow an individual to use whatever combination of those options works best for them. Some might even stretch a category #1 device into a full productivity machine while others only use a #3 device to check email. There will be no right or wrong just personal preference.

    At least I hope it works out that way for tablets. It only makes sense considering it would mirror current phone/laptop/pc line ups (basic, standard and power user/gamer grade devices for each) but applied to the category of tablets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
    • Like Like x 4
  10. leeb

    leeb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    87
    I am also in the 'wait & see' category.

    The last time I bought a full computer system was the late 90s/early 00s...
    Cost to me will be a question of suitability and build quality.
    ... and damned-good audio. My last laptop has a GREAT screen and SHYTTi audio. I scream at it every time I attempt to listen to something.

    (perhaps less screaming is called for ? :p )
     
  11. Spider

    Spider Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    15,413
    Likes Received:
    1,784
    Trophy Points:
    1,000
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Tablet / Device:
    NOOK Tablet Stock NOOKcolor Rooted/Flashed Nexus 7 (2013) 32GB Stock
    Has it ever helped?:rolleyes: It's never worked for me, but I usually feel better afterward.
     
  12. leeb

    leeb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    87
    Actually yes...

    but it came at the exact time of the loudest part of the movie. :rolleyes:
     
  13. learner

    learner Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    180
    Tablet / Device:
    acer a 501, N8020 Galaxy Note 10.1, Galaxy Tab 4.
    I am sick of these (OLD SCHOOL) reviewers. All these people see as beneficial ars Ipads and Nexus 7s, when will they see that there is a real need for these devices?I personally have been seeking out for the last 12 months a device that I can get some productivity work done whilst in the field.I have a personal need for digitiser pen input to annotate photos and documents.when at work.This lead me to Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1.for its pen input.so off to the reviews I went.I could not believe the negativity.and bias of most reviewers towards this tablet.mostly anti Spen saying it was a gimmick.or not of much use and recommending Ipads and FINGER input ? some even suggesting a Nexus7? Are they for REAL!! The only other option is a Surface Pro tablet which I duly researched and this is the reaction we get, a biased review by a person who is still tied to his Laptop.and I suspect has never really used a tablet for anything ! I now totally disregard reviews and base my decisions on USER feedback.and what I can glean from demos.I am waiting for the Surface Pro release to compare with Galaxy Note . before I make a choice.The cost of the Surface Pro may be high but here in OZ I paid AU$800 for my Acer A501.For me this is not about Windows8 v Android its about getting a task done in the best way possible.
     
  14. Tom T

    Tom T Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,632
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Location:
    Washington State
    Tablet / Device:
    Hauwei S7
    I have a Galaxy Note 10.1 and can tell you the S Pen is definitely not a gimmick. Unfortunately, at least from what I've seen so far, it seems only the Atom based Surface devices will have digitizers, and at least as far as the Microsoft models go they won't hit the market until the first quarter of next year. I can't wait to get some hands on time with them but for now the Note serves very well, I am much more than pleased with it.

    ......
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. ThinkingBrian

    ThinkingBrian Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    62
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Tablet / Device:
    Google (Asus) Nexus 7 Android Tablet and LG Thrive Android Smartphone
    First, I just bought a Nexus 7 a few weeks ago after selling my Acer A100 and I couldn't be happier with it. I use my Nexus 7 for email, web browser, social media (Facebook, Twitter), light blogging including uploading a photo, watching videos including music videos, movies, TV shows and more, playing games, listening to music , while using my laptop for major things like word processing and editing video. The nexus 7 to me to beyond "just a toy."

    That said, I believe while the ARM Windows 8 tablets might not be much if over $300, it will be interesting to see if the Windows 8 PRO tablets like the Microsoft Surface can in fact replace the standard laptop. It all depends upon what the consumer is using there laptop for... me, those Windows 8 tablets aren't really going to do the trick. But for someone like my sister, father, mother and other who use there laptops for normal things like Facebook, Email, web browsing and more, those tablet might do the trick perfectly depending upon price.

    Also many consumers are going mobile now and taking there tablets and laptops on the , the Windows 8 tablets might be just the ticket. I believe its still too early to judge whether or not Windows 8, Windows 8 ARM Tablets and Windows 8 Pro tablets and hybrid devices are worth it or not and will be a hit or miss. Here's an idea, try one out in a store before putting a failed sign on them and call by just toys or even junk.

    Sent from Nexus 7
     

Share This Page